Voting For the Screenshot Competition Poll

[emfrat]

Too right, cobber !

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (Adrian Brausch @ Sep 7 2013,1:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

..since when did this goddamn monthly SS comp get so f?? Bloody complicated !!

Were i just about thru the Tea Towel in

[Sonnyj]

Umm, what was the problem in the 1st place???I forget . LOL

We could always outsource the job of picking the winner. say the next months sponsor. We couldn't use the current month sponsor each time as then we would have signage on the aircraft and sky writing in the contrails. Ha Ha. Now where is my coca cola aeroplane.

And by the way, Doug, you do a terrific job! Thankyou .

[toprob]

QUOTE (Adrian Brausch @ Sep 7 2013,12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no one should be checking back witht he SS main thread to see who entered what,..and its likely that next to no one is doing that,..the SS Comp as it is now is absolutely fine,..leave it as it is now with just the number beside each image and leave it the hell alone I say,...since when did this goddamn monthly SS comp get so f?? Bloody complicated !!

Um, yeah, considering that it all started with me pointing out some new, unannounced rules which had snuck into the comp over time, it has kind of grown into a monster. Still, if that's what people want (more changes, not less), then give it to them -- as long as everyone has the same chance to give their views.

I'm with Ian on this one -- half the fun is trash-talking in the competition thread, and hiding everything from the members would make the comp as exciting as a Lotto draw. (Before anyone starts, I don't condone trash-talking in any form -- unless it's entertaining.)

Sonnyj -- some great points, and thanks for bringing up the sponsorship. If you look carefully each time you visit the forum, the title of the main page (as shown at the top of your browser) cycles through various versions -- one says '(100% Ad Free!)' so we'd have to bear this in mind before giving too much power to the sponsors. It does seem to be at odds with the logo on the banner. Might be time to remove this title from the rotation, and give some thought to how advertising would work on the forum.

I have gone on a bit about the reasons why things are done as they are, but that doesn't mean that anyone can't explore other ideas -- someone might want to trial a separate comp as Doug suggests, at the moment the comp really needs to be organised by an admin, but it would be entirely possible for any member to organise something which doesn't require access to the admin area. Here's one way which could work:

Any member who wants to organise a comp posts an announcement on the forum, along with any rules (hopefully not tooooo many...) and supplies a method of sending entries to them. They then upload entries to an image host and posts them to the forum. At the end of the comp, they ask for votes via PM. All they need is normal access to the forum, so any member could do this.

On the other hand, we could just stick with the current method, just remove the names from the voting poll as preferred by the forum.

[zk2704]

Yep, a number will be all goods so we can count how many entries are there, GRAB THAT CALCULATOR IAN!!!!

OMG!!!!! HE'S GETTING THE GCSB GUYS ON US, ME AND THE NZFF FORUMS!!!!!!!!!!

[dbcunnz]

QUOTE (toprob @ Sep 7 2013,1:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Um, yeah, considering that it all started with me pointing out some new, unannounced rules which had snuck into the comp over time, it has kind of grown into a monster. Still, if that's what people want (more changes, not less), then give it to them -- as long as everyone has the same chance to give their views.

Well Rob show me where the unannounced rules are that have snuck into the comp that has kind of grown it into a monster as here is a copy of the rules of the first screenshot comp that I did when I took over running the comp
If those rules you are talking about snuck in before my starting to run the screenshot comp then tell me why has it taken so bloody long before someone started complaining about them

Welcome to the NZFF Screenshot Competition for November 2010.

Hi All I have just taken over from Robin to run the Screenshot competition and will be following his format for now but I am open to suggestions from members.
There is no prize for this month unless one is donated before this months closure date but I will be looking to see if I can find and introduce prizes again in the near future.

This month's rules are as follows:

1) The screenshot must be from a Flight Simulator program (FS2004, FSX, X-Plane, etc), and the position of the shot must be somewhere over New Zealand territory.

2) The image size must be at least 1024 pixels wide, and no wider than 1280 pixels -- this is a change from previously, so take note! Read the uploading screenshot guide to find out how to re-size your shot. Please keep a high resolution version saved on your computer; the admin may request it from you at the end of the month to convert into a site banner!

3) Images can be submitted from 11th November 2010 until the 30th November 2010, with only one entry per member. You can change your submission before the closing date if you want, just delete the old one and replace it with a new one (by using the edit button at the bottom of your post. Please don't post saying you have edited your original entry, as this creates unnecessary clutter).

4) Soon after the competition ends, a poll will open to decide who has the best image, and then the winner will have a cropped version of their image appear in the NZFF banner as well as receiving the prize the adulation of the forum!
The prize for this month is an Autographed copy of Kevin Wilkey's book Laughter in the Sky.

5) Editing is allowed, if you know how to do it. The more stunning your shots look the better!

6) This month's theme:

I thought I would pick a theme out of all the things that have been going on over the past month.

So this month's theme is “KEEPING PIRATES FROM OUR SHORESâ€￾

[toprob]

QUOTE (dbcunnz @ Sep 7 2013,6:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well Rob show me where the unannounced rules are that have snuck into the comp that has kind of grown it into a monster as here is a copy of the rules of the first screenshot comp that I did when I took over running the comp
If those rules you are talking about snuck in before my starting to run the screenshot comp then tell me why has it taken so bloody long before someone started complaining about them

Haven't we been over all that? Maybe you should move this over to the old discussion thread.

Anyway, the 'monster' here is the discussion on changes to the comp, not the comp itself. And not all the rules are explicit here -- previously the rules always included this with the theme:

QUOTE

As always you can interpret the theme as you wish.[/quote]

This has gone now, which is fine by me, but it does look like there is now an implied rule that you can't interpret the theme as you wish. The idea was always to have the minimum number of rules to keep things working well. And generally, the rules were not enforced -- the voters actually got to decide if a shot which broke a rule deserved a vote. The controlling thing here wasn't the forum admin saying what was and wasn't allowed, but what members were prepared to vote for. People who regularly broke a screenshot comp rule would soon learn that this isn't the way to get votes, so they'd probably not do it too much. But it was always nice to have the option to 'reinterpret' the theme a little. Sometimes this resulted in a great shot. Ian is a master of this -- waaay outside the box, but gives everyone a laugh, and is actually creative, which shouldn't be discouraged.

There's now a rule 3a. So when I looked and saw the implied rule of 'don't interpret', the new 3a, the extra bit about ' Screenshot to include a bit of land and ocean in the same image ' which was being strictly enforced (ok, I understand now that this was maybe not the intention, but at the time it seemed to be an extra rule), combined with the large number of members having to change their entry, it struck me that things needed a shakeup.

Which has happened. You're welcome.

Last edited by toprob on Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (toprob @ Sep 7 2013,2:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm with Ian on this one -- half the fun is trash-talking in the competition thread, and hiding everything from the members would make the comp as exciting as a Lotto draw. (Before anyone starts, I don't condone trash-talking in any form -- unless it's entertaining.)

Finally someone could understand my secret code .. called Jibber Jibber

QUOTE (zk2704 @ Sep 7 2013,3:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep, a number will be all goods so we can count how many entries are there, GRAB THAT CALCULATOR IAN!!!!

Done the numbers .. get a knock on the door tonight and they look like this ... don't run .... they are looking for my special CALCULATOR ...

[dbcunnz]

Maybe members should read the rules from top to bottom instead of jumping to conclusions.
You will find up near the top of the competition page "If you have any queries about the rules please PM me for clarification before posting your entry."
Would that not have sorted out the problem without all this carry on that has followed what was a line inadvertently left in the theme by me when I posted the comp.
I can not for the life of me see where that lead to the rules grown into a monster but then again maybe I am getting blind in my old age.
As it is now all the rules except the rule 6: the actual theme for the comp are there for a reason and most are to help doing the cropping of the winning image for the banner.

[toprob]

QUOTE (dbcunnz @ Sep 7 2013,8:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can not for the life of me see where that lead to the rules grown into a monster but then again maybe I am getting blind in my old age.

You have completely misunderstood me here. Read it again. Here's what I've just said:
"Anyway, the 'monster' here is the discussion on changes to the comp, not the comp itself." I'm not calling you or your rules a monster:)

By the way, I generally don't use the PM system. PMs always get deleted (because of the limited space), and this has got me into trouble before. The forum itself is a lot more permanent, and I can easily search when I need to refer to something.

[dbcunnz]

QUOTE (toprob @ Sep 7 2013,9:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have completely misunderstood me here. Read it again. Here's what I've just said:
"Anyway, the 'monster' here is the discussion on changes to the comp, not the comp itself." I'm not calling you or your rules a monster:)

By the way, I generally don't use the PM system. PMs always get deleted (because of the limited space), and this has got me into trouble before. The forum itself is a lot more permanent, and I can easily search when I need to refer to something.

Sorry Rob yes I did miss read it but as for this thread turning into a monster it has turned into a very good and interesting monster at least it has aired a few thoughts and suggestions which is all good whether some of them are taken up or not is a different matter.
There have been some very robust discussions which is always good for the forum and I hope members will continue to air their thoughts on here.

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (dbcunnz @ Sep 7 2013,10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There have been some very robust discussions which is always good for the forum and I hope members will continue to air their thoughts on here.

Now for the next Poll ... Why do people not post screens for a competition were they have the chance to win a top notch prize?

[Adamski]

Is this topic/discussion closed?

I've been on extended leave from NZFF for a while (!), so don't know whether all the suggestions here were incorporated into the current version of the polling system. I just re-read the whole topic out of interest - after having submitted an entry (and voted) for this current month (April/ANZAC).

I also enter in screencomps on the FTX/ORBX forum, which uses a completely different set of rules. Without doing a blow-by-blow comparison, I think there are some advantages to the way they have it set up - particularly with respect to *anonymity* .

I think it's totally futile hiding the author of the screenshot - and don't really see the harm in knowing who voted for what.

How it works (on ORBX):

A) Only *entrants* to the comp get the right to vote. We could extend that to all registered NZFF members.

B) A voter simply puts up a post with the entry number and/or author name - possibly adding *why* they liked that particular one (thus maybe giving it a bit of interest).

Advantages:

1) If voting was open, the (admittedly small) problem of "voting for your own entry" would disappear. No need for the admin to do any checking or policing.

2) I just voted this month - and clicked on a few pics in order to see them in all their glory. Quite a few linked backed to a user's personal gallery or other, so it appears to be fairly easy to see who did what.

3) Tactical voting: Even if the running total isn't displayed, it could easily be worked out by potential voters (by manually adding up the voting messages). So ... does it matter? If we see who votes for what ... and *when* ... we can see voters scrambling to influence "neck and neck" situations. So what? Could be fun to watch!

4) No need for the admin to set up or administer a complex poll and have to create thumbnails etc. Simply create a new voting thread that contains all the entries but with all the discussions/comments removed. Voters would simply add their vote/comment to the bottom that thread.

Other than that, I have a few additional thoughts:

5) Remind voters that we're voting for an attractive *screenshot* - regardless of how easily it can be adapted to work as a banner (good fun for the admin!). However - maybe entrants should spare a thought, when selecting their entry, to how they could end up looking in letter-box format. The banner is, after all, an important vehicle for promoting NZFF (and the prizegiver).

6) Ask voters to consider how well the entry reflects the monthly theme when casting their vote.

7) Make the banner link back to the sponsor - or back to the original (full size) entry pic.

Hopefully these suggestions are of some interest, even if I've "missed the boat"!

Adam.

[toprob]

Adam, you make some good points, all valid. Although I could easily check this (but I won't because I can't be bothered), I do seem to remember that this discussion arose out of a few complaints that the same old regulars were winning all the time, and that it was difficult to 'break into' the screenshot comp. There were also a few members who thought that they were disadvantaged because they didn't have a lot of expensive addons, or a flash computer.

For a while, then, the admin gave members the opportunity to build the comp how they wanted it, hence the comp-by-committee feel now, but this really made absolutely no difference to the quality or quantity of entries. I must admit I got more of a kick out the the competitive banter/tactical voting, and the new sanitised system doesn't fire me up, but I am also very aware that nothing we have done has affected the number of entries, or the number of votes.

I enter most months because I think it is a simple way to show my support for the forum, but sometimes it is a bit of a chore now. Voting, on the other hand, is always such a simple and satisfying thing that it continues to astound me that so few members vote.

But one 'solution' has been brought up which is worth a try -- build your own comp, your rules, and see who turns up:)

[Ian Warren]

Many good points brought up , one thing we have to take in regard and account for, many younger members are in there at the 15/16/17 age bracket, directly into it , having a lot of fun then suddenly the change , Its those pretty girls painted on the sides off aeroplanes , they must ask themselves .. look and think .. , then swoosh they are "gone with the wind" .

[Adamski]

... I do seem to remember that this discussion arose out of a few complaints that the same old regulars were winning all the time, and that it was difficult to 'break into' the screenshot comp. There were also a few members who thought that they were disadvantaged because they didn't have a lot of expensive addons, or a flash computer.

Maybe giving two sets of marks: one for "style" and one for "relevance". This would give the people with less powerful systems/editing skills (but have nevertheless created a very *apt* image) a bit more weighting <?>. How the maths would work, I'm not sure - but it wouldn't be impossible. EDIT: Maybe give the 1st prize as per normal - but give give the 2nd or 3rd prize to "the most apt" <?>.

As to the same people winning every time - I think that's simply because too few people enter. ie. Not enough competition. At ORBX (where the comp is much more popular) I get many "likes" for my entries - and generally get a good reception for all my pics in other topics - I have yet to win anything - and this is after 3 years of entering (every month)!

But one 'solution' has been brought up which is worth a try -- build your own comp, your rules, and see who turns up:)

I'm not likely do that - as I think it'd totally undermine the current competition (and all the hard work Doug puts into it). Also - I think if a designated admin runs the comp, then it should reflect his/her "style" of running it - albeit having got there after plenty of "democratic" input/discussion.

Adam.

[Adamski]

A year later and not much appears to have changed!!!

The following suggestions are just that - and are not meant to diminish in any way the *excellent* job Doug has done of the last 6 years (Really? Where did the time go???). I'll also repeat from my last comment a year ago: running a separate contest along experimental lines at the same time as the current one would be counter-productive - so I don't think "let's try it and see" would work unless you swapped over temporarily from one to another. This may mean a lot of extra work for Doug (not sure ... Doug?).

So ... this isn't a *proposal* as such - just some ideas.

================================================================

I've been a long-term poster in both the NZFF and ORBX screencomps - and both have their plusses and minuses. So here's my "take" (re-hashed for 2016) and with elements unashamedly borrowed from each.

1) Dump the in-built phpBB polling system - it's too restrictive, IMHO.

2) Let the Poll administrator manually count the votes. Though it might appear to be time-consuming on the surface, much time would be saved by not needing to moderate or by having to create a poll (see below).

3) Create TWO (parallel) topics per month. Prohibit comments in the *main* thread. This means only pics are shown - with no "bloat" - and no need to repaste the pics/links manually into a new topic for a poll. Voters simply refer to the original topic and make a note of the number(s). Moderation could be short and sweet: non-picture posts removed (or moved) with minimal fuss.

4) Use the secondary topic for all discussion - serious, irreverent, irrelevant - it wouldn't matter. Anyone can comment - not just entrants.

5) Only allow contestants to vote. If you don't enter, you can't vote. This could lessen the "buddy voting" problem. The argument against this in the past has been that this may restrict the number of votes cast - but in reality, there are so few *entries* these days that it's almost academic as to how many people vote for them. I suspect the total number of votes cast lately roughly equals the number of entrants.

6) Votes cast over time in *publicly visible* posts. Because only contestants can vote, it doesn't matter who sees who votes for what ... or when.

7) Retain the "must be over NZ" stipulation - and show at least something that's recognisably NZ landscape (though an NZ aircraft would probably be OK too).

8) Retain *themes* - but split the vote into two: one vote for visual appeal and one for theme relevance. More often than not, they will be the same - but not always. The 2nd vote could either count towards a total tally or help determine a tie-break. This could also help people that feel they have great ideas, but that they're not total Photoshop whizz-kids.

9) I feel sponsors ought to get more for their generosity - so you could add a stipulation that the screenshot has to include a product from the sponsor. ORBX already do that in a way, as *every* shot has to show an ORBX product (at least in part).

================================================================

Go on folks - pull it apart - I'm thick-skinned! Anything that helps the comp is OK by me, as I'm probably the comp's greatest fan!

Adam.

EDIT: An alternative to this could to use all of the above, but scrap the voting element of it and let the sponsor decide (is this how we used to do it once?). Split the topics (as per [3]) to make it easier for the sponsor so they don't have to read our looney comments (!).

[Ian Warren]

One thing you me and we have to take in account , is each month is only a Month and what is is posted disappears into oblivion the 28th 30 th or 31st comes around , what makes it the head scratcher is were are the Adrian's,Andrew's,Brents,Phil's,Sean's,Jadyen's,Mike's,Chris's,Peters,Paul's,Zane's and the Ian's .. OH Shite I'm still here ....

[Sonnyj]

Way back in 2013??


I concur...

An Earlier post below...

» Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:22 pm

Umm, what was the problem in the 1st place???I forget . LOL

We could always outsource the job of picking the winner. say the next months sponsor. We couldn't use the current month sponsor each time as then we would have signage on the aircraft and sky writing in the contrails. Ha Ha. Now where is my coca cola aeroplane.

And by the way, Doug, you do a terrific job! Thankyou .

[Ian Warren]

Sorry Les .. Ian and Les .. OH ! crap were are both still bloody here