787 Broken dreams

[cowpatz]

An upcoming Al Jazeera TV undercover expose on the 787. Not a good look it seems.
Broken dreams

[Ian Warren]

Al Jazeera TV , ain't that a ARBUSTS subsidiary company

[cowpatz]

The full documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkEpst ... e=youtu.be

[Splitpin]

QUOTE (cowpatz @ Sep 11 2014,11:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The full documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkEpst ... e=youtu.be

Not a good look at all CP . I watched it twice , to make sure i got it all .... and theres a lot to take in .
Scary stuff .

[Ian Warren]

I have been watching this all afternoon between between MP and chats ... Bloody Bean-counters , grubby little barstards , this really show's the major problem with out sourcing, this shows the big corporates more worried about their pockets and have no clue about engineering .... the ARBUSTS industry is in the same boat .

My closes example off this very same thing was making switch detonators, a contract for the US Army , I could go thru the details , I did tooling by drawing specs and mentioned they would fail and point out the two failings .. you don't use two different measure scales to produce a lock-nut - the other was simply over engineered and was going to break down .

The guy doing the machine drawings .. It was just above head ... even the most un-complex drawings were a shambles Yet he was in the boss's pocket .... the company dose not operate anymore - but that gives you an idea .

[HamiltonWest]

Boeing staff scared to fly on their own planes
https://nz.totaltravel.yahoo.com/news-o ... wn-planes/

[omitchell]

QUOTE (HamiltonWest @ Sep 12 2014,1:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boeing staff scared to fly on their own planes
https://nz.totaltravel.yahoo.com/news-o ... wn-planes/

Kinda null and void's Ian's arguments about Airbus really doesn't it?

Ok that aside. ANY company in the world has employee's that doesn't like their product. It doesn't matter if it's Boeing, Airbus, Nokia, Subaru, Ford, Corsair, Nvidia etc etc. Let's not overlook the fact that this plane had the most intensive testing of any product Boeing has release and it passed them all. Yes the -800 had a few issues with batteries but that has been rectified, but what new aircraft hasn't had teething troubles? It's a new plane, it's passed it's tests. I'll wait for one to crash and the investigation results before I'll pass judgement on it...

One thing I will say tho, Air NZ's economy seats tho are really CHEAP CR@P!!!!!!!!!! Seriously, they got these junkers at the $2 shop...

[Timmo]

I came back from Aussie on Sunday on the 787-I was impressed. Quiet, big windows and got off feeling fresh

[cowpatz]

QUOTE (omitchell @ Sep 12 2014,3:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One thing I will say tho, Air NZ's economy seats tho are really CHEAP CR@P!!!!!!!!!! Seriously, they got these junkers at the $2 shop...

These are the economy seats that nearly all airlines will be running with from now on. It allows for a more dense seating arrangement.
Everyone wants cheap fares....this is the consequence.

The most concerning part of the doco was the Carolina plant. Being non-unionised means no worker protection. You raise your head a little too high and you are out on your rear. This does not encourage a credible safety culture at all. Performance bonuses are just too high. It was interesting to look at the CEO's renumeration and what that salary would fund in terms of other salaries.
Having unskilled workers working on aircraft scares the hell out me. They lack the thinking processes and ingrained safety culture that comes from years of training. I have witnessed it first hand myself when car mechanics were first introduced into the industry.
I don't have anything against car mechanics but the "If it doesn't move hit it with a hammer and if it still doesn't move hit it harder or find a bigger hammer" logic has no place anywhere near an aircraft.
I am sure that some workers were disgruntled ex employees and that the reporter was on a crusade, however there were some genuine segments that were most concerning.
The Quality versus Schedule argument is compelling given that Boeing is so far behind in production and it is costing them billions. They will just keep producing as fast as possible and if the customer finds a problem then they will deal with it then.

Time will tell.

[Ian Warren]

It is also strange even when in an industry with a union health and safety, how many safety factor and rules were broken in the last work place I was in, as you mention some of the scary things is were the jacking bolts and fixtures are misaligned they literary hammer them in ... you don't put someone who toss's hamburgers onto a engineering production line, Its engineered for a reason and to spec's.

One example off a very similar off when stressing design points and not following procedure caused the very accident in Chicago in 1979, the DC-10 had engine problem and required replacement .. they removed the engine then replaced using a forklift? .. not too bright, they jacked pass the points and stressing the bolts bending them ... filled the plane up with around 260 passenger and crew and took off .... the thrust ripped the engine off just on rotation and the aircraft cartwheeled into the ground.

[omitchell]

QUOTE (cowpatz @ Sep 12 2014,10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Having unskilled workers working on aircraft scares the hell out me. They lack the thinking processes and ingrained safety culture that comes from years of training. I have witnessed it first hand myself when car mechanics were first introduced into the industry.

I'm gonna have to watch this one because I do know that large parts of this aircraft are manufactured by Fuji Heavy Industries in Japan, and they don't hire unskilled workers...