For Ian...

[omitchell]

So in WW2 what was better, the Spitfire or the Messerschmitt Bf 109???

[Fozzer]

It was the German Heavy Bombers, (whatever they were), which I/we suffered from, in the City of London in 1940+

I've hated anything to do with; "WAR" ever since!

Paul...Cows and Sheep in the countryside, (and my little FS Cessna 150 Aerobat), I like!.... ...!

[Ian Warren]

So in WW2 what was better, the Spitfire or the Messerschmitt Bf 109???

Really gos both ways , with the Spitfire it finally really matured during the the later stage late and just after the Battle of Britain with finally getting cannons were as the Me109 had one from the start making it a lot more devastating from the very start, both were equal and simply depend on how much a good shot (deflection shooting and aim) specific , It really come down to how good the pilot was during the BOB.

Both aircraft kept up with each other , both had there flips and there flops, the one German Ace we all know Erich Hartmann and Günther Rall stuck with the 109 simply it was the aircraft of his choice and it makes them the worlds top aces ever, early publications put Erich around 410 kills , but comes down to about 350 as ground kills were recognize in Luftwaffe were strangely they were more dangerous to do and Günther around 280 .

If it was 1940 I'd rather have the Messerschmitt Bf 109 and mid/late 1942 the Spitfire. What it simply come down to how clever or a good pilot you were.

[Ian Warren]

It was the German Heavy Bombers, (whatever they were), which I/we suffered from, in the City of London in 1940+
I've hated anything to do with; "WAR" ever since!

The German only ever had Medium bombers , as they say , lucky Hitler was an idiot and did not understand the true idea of an airforce or least strategic bombing , had a General Wever not been killed in 1936 the Luftwaffe may have had a sizable force of the Dornier Do 19 and then it may have been a little different , I look at war like people watch a fooseball game , what ever happens it still going to be there , look as these 'IS' twits go running around causing mayhem.

[omitchell]

The German only ever had Medium bombers

Very true, they were never able to make a heavy bomber like Allies brought in to flatten the place a bit later, tho their medium bombers certainly weren't anything to sneeze at. They did their job well enough, even the little Stuka dive bombers...

[Ian Warren]

Not to the same level off intense power as the allied , the Luftwaffe bombing force was more akin to the early British efforts but only in mass , just series of circumstances and fortunate that between Hitlers thought on the idea as throwing (Hitler) 'Sad Sack' and (Goering) 'Gommer Pile' to think about bombing into submission .. It could not be done the same as the RAF/USAAC off the time , they achieved it with countries un-prepaired cause we all again know it was fortunate that 'Sad Sack' started his war 3/4 years to early.

[emfrat]

Owen - if you can get hold of a copy of Len Deighton's "Fighter" which is a documentary analysis of the B of B, unlike his earlier "Bomber" which is a novel, you will find a lot of comparative info on the fighters involved...there wasn't much between them, but when the Spit was given a constant-speed prop, it gained quite an advantage. On the other hand, the Me was fuel-injected, so it did not have to be half-rolled into a dive, and its shorter wingspan gave it a theoretically tighter turning radius, but not many pilots were game to test that since the tailplane was notoriously weak.

[omitchell]

I can probably find that doco somewhere

[Ian Warren]

I can probably find that doco somewhere

I'll be waiting , its respect also for people like 'Fozzer' , see he is hanging in there , the interest we have on this subject .. One area I'm so fascinated with so in a way we can relate with Paul's history.

[emfrat]

I can probably find that doco somewhere

Try your local library, or a second-hand-book shop.
But not this one https://www.flickr.com/photos/garrett_o ... 0370055093

[Ian Warren]

Mike , one thing I pride myself on is having that 'book' on the shelf like you , that shop cooks you noddle wrap in paper .. ole Chinese recipe .. gone the rice paper .. just use ole book .. much cheaper.

[emfrat]

German bombing was very effective because they used a more powerful explosive, and had a better delivery system which concentrated the bombing, from 11-12000'.
It was not until late 1943 that the RAF began to receive bombs using the aluminised explosive which the Germans used, and which the Royal Navy had been using since 1940, because it was 80% better.
This came out more-or-less by accident during a War Cabinet investigation of the possible effects of a flying-bomb attack on London.
German bombers were equipped with a radio positioning system called "Knickebein" which is German for "Dog's leg". They flew along one beam until it was crossed by another, which started a timing mechanism and alerted the pilot to alter course to track to the target. The timing device actually released the bomb.

[Ian Warren]

I love this follow up Mike, Its very interesting the development during this period with , all those little extra details with explosives .

[emfrat]

Ian, the source is "The Mare's Nest" by David Irving. I thought you had a copy. It was published in 1965, long before he discredited himself by joining the Revisionists and denying the Holocaust. My paperback copy is now in about four pieces; must get another. It is a thoroughly researched account of the Intelligence investigation into the reports of German superweapons. I found it a fascinating read, and return to it often.
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchR ... &an=irving

[Ian Warren]

I have a brilliant book here by Ian V Hogg - 'German Secret Weapons of World War II' , it covers all weapons built and designed , tho more information could be written about the subject many leave it alone ... it is impressive to see what they were planning and the designs.

[chopper_nut]

On the original question, I think that during the battle, the Spitfire 1, 1a, II was pretty evenly matched with the BF109 E series. More or less the same speed, turn radius, narrow track undercarriage. However, as with a lot of things, the Germans were ahead on technology. The 109 was injected which could be a big advantage. The 109 had better firepower with the use of cannon. The Spitfire is generally thought to be the better aeroplane though. After the battle, and into 41, the Spitfire started advancing quickly and the 109 was left behind. It was the FW190 that was really the opposition by that point though. Speaking of excellent books, I have just read (in two days) Enemy Coast Ahead by W/C Gibson. Pretty good insight into the early days of Bomber Command although it was written during the war so there is a little bias in it. For fighters, I recommend Wing Leader by Johnnie Johnson. I read it when I was at school and I really should read it again.

[Ian Warren]

One thing I love going to is Ian Warrens place , you can pull a book off the shelf and be there for hours and hours and if required more info its at your finger tips , Arrr if only I had a place like that

[chopper_nut]

Yeh I like Ian's place too. It's like the public library only there's no economics books or any Shakespeare....

[Ian Warren]

Yeh I like Ian's place too. It's like the public library only there's no economics books or any Shakespeare....

Well .. wait a whiles longer .. sure we could come up with Shakes ..... economics , its the latter I use to make scrambled eggs