Rob's search for a new flag...

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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby AdrianPetford » Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:50 am

One article I read hit the nail on the head... the longlist designs are all more like company logos than flags. That's what you get when no one on the approving committee has any experience of flag design, which is something of a precise and traditional art.

Of a very bad bunch, if it has to be changed at all I would pick either the "New Southern Cross" (same colour scheme except with the Union Flag removed and the stars centralised) or the red, white and blue fern design, Southern Cross and colours as existing but with a diagonal white fern in place of the Union Flag with the corner shaded red. That way you still have red, white and blue which are both Maori colours and symbolise British heritage, as well as a symbol used by the ANZACs as far back as 1916 which could make it acceptable to veterans.

Key commented that the maple leaf is now so synonymous with Canadians worldwide that no Canadian would ever want to go back to their previous Union Flag ensign. That may well be true, but if a similar approach is wanted for NZ then it has to be either the kiwi or the fern. The koru is virtually unknown outside NZ and has no recognisable association to NZ. As the kiwi is out, it looks like it'll be the fern!

That said, personally I hope it doesn't change at all. Key's motives for pushing it through are more to do with his "legacy" than the good of NZ I think, plus the timing is inappropriate to say the least. This should not be being considered in the centenary year of Anzac. Personally, I've always felt a great sense of pride that my country's flag is on the NZ flag - my home and my "second home" all on one flag - but that's just me!

Interestingly, this is the flag of the "Black Country", which is the region where I live in the UK. It is the cradle of the industrial revolution and the flag symbolises the black (coal) and fires of industry. The cone is to symbolise the area's worldwide renown for glass making and the chains heavy industry. My home town made the anchor for the Titanic amongst others, and my family were involved in the iron industry for over two hundred years.

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Interestingly, this flag was the result of a competition and was only adopted two years ago, previously there was no flag for this area. It has been hugely popular and can be seen all over the area, even in some people's gardens and out of house windows. For me it's far better than anything on the NZ longlist... and it was designed by a 12-year old schoolgirl!
Last edited by AdrianPetford on Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:05 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby Ian Warren » Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:57 am

AdrianPetford wrote:Key's motives for pushing it through are more to do with his "legacy" than the good of NZ I think, plus the timing is inappropriate to say the least. This should not be being considered in the centenary year of Anzac.

Ade you nailed it !
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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby toprob » Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:03 pm

AdrianPetford wrote:
...Of a very bad bunch, if it has to be changed at all I would pick either the "New Southern Cross" (same colour scheme except with the Union Flag removed and the stars centralised) or the red, white and blue fern design, Southern Cross and colours as existing but with a diagonal white fern in place of the Union Flag with the corner shaded red...


This fern design seems to be a front-runner, I guess that someone has gone to the trouble to make a bunch of them, this is the same as the one I saw in Heathcote:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11497696

Not counting Rodney Hyde, of course.
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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby AdrianPetford » Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:36 pm

toprob wrote:
AdrianPetford wrote:This fern design seems to be a front-runner, I guess that someone has gone to the trouble to make a bunch of them, this is the same as the one I saw in Heathcote:


Yes, that's the one. It does look good and is nothing radical, so it could be seen as a development from the existing flag rather than a totally new one with no history attached.

Here's a very interesting article on the design of the South African flag, one of my favourite flags:

Fred Brownell: The man who made South Africa's flag

Designed very quickly and only intended to be temporary, it proved so popular it stuck. I like this one because it combines the colours associated with all the country's political groups equally into a really striking and original design.
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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby toprob » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:44 pm

Well, I've kind of cooled on the whole idea of a new flag, simply because I don't love any of the four choices. The Koru design is the only really acceptable choice for me, and I suspect that I'm waaaaaaaaay in the minority...
Ah, well, it was fun while it lasted. And very entertaining reading online comments...
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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby Ian Warren » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:53 pm

toprob wrote:Well, I've kind of cooled on the whole idea of a new flag,

And very entertaining reading online comments...


:D Here's Frank again wavering himself around .. Frankly it, currently its pretty stupid .. all for a 'Knob' who really wants a name plate in history.
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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby cowpatz » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:46 pm

Probably just a great smoke screen to sneak in TPPA. Why else would you spend $25 million on a referendum that could have waited until the next election and cost practically nothing?
Quite shameful really.
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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby toprob » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:11 pm

The link I posted earlier (the Stuff article) talks about the TPPA as one of the main conspiracy theories, and I tend to agree with this -- spinning for the government isn't my favourite occupation, but they are clever enough to know that the TPPA can't really be hidden behind a flag. This is an easy and glib thing to say, but doesn't really hold up. I know a lot of people who like to get fired up about these matters, and none of them are silly enough to overlook the TPPA because they are too busy with the flag debate...

And there's the other group, who like to grizzle about everything, but by definition 'everything' covers, well, everything, so they won't overlook the TPPA either.
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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby cowpatz » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:29 pm

Quite right Rob but you missed out the biggest group by far.....the "selfie set". Interested in nothing deeper than a shallow puddle. This is the group the flag debate is aimed to distract (or keep distracted).

If we are really looking at something that symbolises the state of our nation (unfortunately), that should unite us, and where that S25 million might be better spent, then maybe we need something like this...........


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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby Ian Warren » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:30 pm

cowpatz wrote:Image

I'm making a flag pole as we speak ... our NZ-flag solution sorted at 25 cents a copy ... whoops 5 dollars and 25 cents .. we are all sorted! B-)
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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby cowpatz » Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:41 pm

Then of course a JK favourite. To be rolled out after the TPPA signing. I can just see this flapping on a flagpole in a warm Hawaiian breeze.... :)


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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby Ian Warren » Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:56 pm

cowpatz wrote:Then of course a JK favourite. To be rolled out after the TPPA signing. I can just see this flapping on a flagpole in a warm Hawaiian breeze.... :)


Image

I seriously could live with that .. as long as they winded the runway for B-52 .... Ooo Oooo Ooooo .. and bring in some B-1's and to spice it up .. what the hell a few B-2's B-)
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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby omitchell » Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:33 pm

How about.....

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Founder and Former CEO of VANZ

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and you never hear the end of it."
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Westbury, L.I
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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby Ian Warren » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:03 am

OWEN .. please don't tease ! ............ then again your probably correct <_<
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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby toprob » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:04 pm

I'm planning ahead, so I've changed my avatar from the old flag to the new...
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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby Ian Warren » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:18 pm

toprob wrote:I'm planning ahead, so I've changed my avatar from the old flag to the new...

STINK! :P
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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby toprob » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:21 pm

On a positive note, I have dusted off my jandals in preparation for summer, getting closer every day...
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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby Ian Warren » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:36 pm

I guess in around Diamond Harbour it really dose get very nice ... parts you would think your in the Coromandel Peninsular ... we were able to eat tucker, straight off the beach in the evenings .. Pipi's (small shell fish to the un-locals) ... left in the sun would smell like Robs Jandels :D
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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby Ian Warren » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:40 pm

If anything seriously went Wrong .... Oooo boy the flags would really start a WOBBLING :huh:
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Re: Rob's search for a new flag...

Postby cowpatz » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:07 pm

The Allblacks silver fern intellectual property issue has put a spanner in the works.
Good thing yours is green Rob!
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