Funding the Cluster Bombs

[Charl]

I was sent this link:
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/ ... s-revealed
Great bit of investigative reporting, and certainly not a good look for NZ investment brokers "investing in companies making cluster bombs and anti-personnel mines."
Then I thought: they all make CB's and AP's they are "Defence Contractors"!
Then I thought further: Wait a minute! isn't Lockheed Martin the purveyor of a flightsim which takes money by way of "Licence Fees"?
Does this mean that flightsimmers using P3D are helping to blow up innocent children in places like Syria?
The answer is: Yes.
Mmm...

[Ian Warren]

And to think people call me a War Monger, I not even with Kiwibank, look at it this way, what about NZDF weaponry, tax payer pays for that, I keep thinking, they always use the "Will Please, someone please think off the children" give another few years, they are running around with the ideology that we are all bad not Allah and with bombs wrapped around them walking up to innocent people ... it is a two way street. I think if they were all worried about it ... send the forces and stop it and not the TV cameras.

[Charl]

KiwiSaver...

It's an emotive issue, and the discussion can easily derail.
The point is that these weapons are indiscriminately deployed, have little value during the conflict, and have long-lasting after effects.
One of the biggest human tragedies on the planet followed US bombing of Laos in the 60's.

Here are some other startling facts about the U.S. bombing of Laos and its tragic aftermath:

Over 270 million cluster bombs were dropped on Laos during the Vietnam War (210 million more bombs than were dropped on Iraq in 1991, 1998 and 2006 combined); up to 80 million did not detonate.
Nearly 40 years on, less than 1% of these munitions have been destroyed.More than half of all confirmed cluster munitions casualties in the world have occurred in Laos.
Each year there continue to be over 100 new casualties in Laos. Close to 60% of the accidents result in death, and 40% of the victims are children.

Note the last sentence: kids find the AP's and don't understand what they are. Not cool.

The Convention on Cluster Munitions 2008 effectively bans their use. Signed by over 100 countries, notably excepting those that make the things:
China, Russia, the United States, India, Israel, Pakistan and Brazil

I reckon disinvesting in companies that manufacture these things makes a worthy statement.
Right up there with mustard gas, and methamphetamine, and so on, we can do without this stuff.

OK that's off my chest, I was a little surprised too.

[Ian Warren]

Here are some other startling facts about the U.S. bombing of Laos and its tragic aftermath:

Not so strange, the other night nothing on TV , .. to the shelve and the movie "The Killing Fields" .... for ones who have not seen this movie it is highly recommended by me! ... Laos and Cambodia in that period, they did need Cluster Bombs , they were doing it with pitch forks and shovels, peoples turned their backs on the that one.

Cluster Bombs are nothing new, Hell's, developed in WWII ... infantry version a good old Clay-more mine ... I think if you study this sort of thing, the weapons, everyone has the interest , look at it this way .. what is STAR WARS all about.

[toprob]

That's something which I've agonised over since the early days of Prepar3d, and I did look at it way back when they first released version 1. Before then, all I knew about LM was what I'd come across in various docos back in the early 2000s. So I knew they were way up there on Santa's (and Michael Moore's) naughty list, but even then they had a free pass from me simply because they were a big contributor to the space program, which is one of my 'things'. Yes, I'm aware they cocked up the Mars Orbiter by programming in non-metric units, but generally they've done a lot to get my virtual POV, and my dreams, out into the solar system.
However I do feel very guilty not being able to give this up for 'moral' reasons, which is something I thought defined me, but apparently I'm just as selfish and self-serving as anyone else. Then again, just how many weapons do I fund with my NZ$16 a month? I'm sure that LM will do exactly the same with or without my validation. Luckily my Kiwisaver contributions are nil...
We all need to pick out targets, well, those of us who don't take on the world full-time. I care more about the combo of the US and Israel, which even by the US definition represents 'terrorism' to a much larger degree than any other group. But that's not really a suitable topic for NZFF....

[Ian Warren]

A lot of this information was freely available anyway, it simply gets hyped up via media... the death and what ever, Lockheed Aircraft company has been around and making or part making history and even New Zealand company's have been a part of it since the 1980's ... Martin Aircraft company .. we also know the history with that 'MARAUDER' , combine the two .. we get Flight Simulation .. KUWELL ... I don't have it yet , ... to me as Clint Eastwood would say it ..!!!!!

[toprob]

In another desperate attempt at self-justification, hopefully this space fence will save the lives of countless Syrian kids....

Lockheed Martin Lands $914M Space Fence Contract

LM are currently putting together contingency plans which include renaming this the 'Donald Trump Space Wall' in case of an election upset...

[Ian Warren]

I see a post removed .. I was intended to add some humour .. I thought the 'Donald' was not to be mentioned, .... one would have to be very dumb not to think were money go's to kill people, 'Shite' now we are going to space just to fill in the gap 'Clint' got kicked out off ... something that openly available on Utube , Cluster Bombs .. nothing wrong with them in the right hands ...... 'Napalm' was also on the list of the not to use on the battle field , this rule got broken real quick by the Argie's in 1982 ... in many writings, most combat troops say they would prefer a low yield Nuclear strike that to a fire bomb, ... Cluster Bomb ... exactly what they are designed for is take out soft targets.

[toprob]

Um, more likely the four-letter word brought the moderation, rather than the politics?

[Ian Warren]

I don't understand why people don't even think about weapon use, when your defenseless in your on home in New Zealand ... and so close to an attack , both sides of my owned place , the Police call/chat room said a weapon ... a ground based Clay-More would have far more effective, so I look at Weapons of War in a whole usable meaning. ... many need it

[Ian Warren]

Um, more likely the four-letter word brought the moderation, rather than the politics?

It was a twelve letter word

[toprob]

I don't understand why people don't even think about weapon use, when your defenseless in your on home in New Zealand ... and so close to an attack , both sides of my owned place , the Police call/chat room said a weapon ... a ground based Clay-More would have far more effective, so I look at Weapons of War in a whole usable meaning. ... many need it

I don't feel unprotected in my home, I'm protected by layers of community/society. Sure, someone could break in here and threaten me, but I wouldn't feel safer if I was armed, as I would think that this would be one step towards someone -- probably me -- being shot. One of the best protections here in NZ is that we don't subscribe to the American fear-mongering which leads to itchy triggers...

[Ian Warren]

I don't understand what is so wrong with weapons of war, LETS ALL DELETE our Spitfires, B-17's B-52's and pretend these real McCoy's were used as ...... UMMMM still to figure that out .. but to those who really follow the aircraft history know they went into peace time service as transports , I still don't own LM-P3D , I wonder how much money Microsoft or its components has added over the years, as I said .... Its a two way street , in a way they get what you got, and they generally will return the favour.

[Ian Warren]

I don't feel unprotected in my home, I'm protected by layers of community/society. Sure, someone could break in here and threaten me, but I wouldn't feel safer if I was armed, as I would think that this would be one step towards someone -- probably me -- being shot. One of the best protections here in NZ is that we don't subscribe to the American fear-mongering which leads to itchy triggers...

Wait till your under siege for well over two years ... trust me I can tell you all about it !

[toprob]

I have nothing against war, it is a major factor in human development, and we are all the products of countless wars, both on the winning and losing sides.
However I do think that we can change and develop over time to a point where war is a lot less common, and no longer a first-resort for nations to deal with conflict. And ultimately, a long time in the future, it will be eradicated.
What I don't like is the glory and honour given to war, for those who are involved it is anything but glorious and honourable. But there's a lot of effort goes into changing a people's perception of the enemy, and that's a huge part of it -- we are fighting for glory and honour, whereas they are evil heathens who would destroy us if we let them, so we should destroy them first.

[Ian Warren]

What I don't like is the glory and honour given to war, for those who are involved it is anything but glorious and honourable. But there's a lot of effort goes into changing a people's perception of the enemy, and that's a huge part of it -- we are fighting for glory and honour,

A lot of people I know, really under appreciate my know, I it comes down to the research and gap filling , "glory and honour given to war" that comes with the package and again both sides as well. I would like news people to take the footage and the usage of the weapons , but not to use the "Will Someone Please Think of the Children" .. that is regular war .. common stuff.. not a advert for ........ Ummmm whatever TV rating or media ratings ..

[Ian Warren]

However I do think that we can change and develop over time to a point where war is a lot less common, and no longer a first-resort for nations to deal with conflict .................... it will be eradicated.

I did think it will be eradicated, on the News every night ... On the News and Police jail houses .... Change and Develop .. I question why they still make CLUSTER BOMBS .. the other one .. I have now sealed a wall just to make it safe in my community, THO ! due to my efforts , the entire street is really living again except for the 'PPPR' not captured.

[Ian Warren]

I think here is a song that explains a lot off things , and and lotta not.

Watch on youtube.com

Brilliant Listen and read and Brilliant Listen and read ...

[Splitpin]

Oh boy ... when i first read this post (and well done Charl ) i thought , this is a time bomb ...tick tick tick.
And sure enough , a deletion and only up to page one .

Tick tick tick

[emfrat]

It was a twelve letter word

Oh, that would have been Mr Clutterbuck, then?

If you must have war, you need weapons; but you are fighting the enemy army, not non-combatants. Land mines and cluster bombs are indiscriminate, they are just as likely to kill your own people as your enemies. That's why the first world don't like them, but they like the profits to be made from supplying these weapons to second or third world countries, who don't care about such distinctions.
I just don't know how we can identify and eliminate at an early age, the sort of people who dream up these weapons.