Dreams Are Free

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Dreams Are Free

Postby aerofoto » Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:52 pm

I don't really care for "WHAT IF/FICTITIOUS LIVERY" subjects, but, the following are a coup we (at HJG) have recently knocked out .... to the appreciation some and disgust of of others :( :)

A couple of these actually very near came to be .... had commercial influence not resisted political persuasion over NZ during the mid 1960's. I've related this story previously, but, are repeating it fot the sake of this presentation and anyone whom may be unaware ....


During the 1960's NZNAC, like most of the worlds major airlines, were intent upon acquiring jet equipment .... as a replacement for its VISCOUNT 800 turboprops in the case of this government owned NZ domestic airline.

NZ being a British Commonwealth country had historically, but not entirely, selected British aircraft equipment .... through both political influence/pressure from the UK as well as NZ's then government inspired "Buy British" mentality.

In the case of NZNAC though this preference began to change during the very late 1950's/very early 1960's when the airline acquired F27 turboprops in preference to the similar British HP HERALD .... and despite political pressure having been applied to the contrary.

During the mid 1960's NZNAC evaluated the B727 (which shared certain performance commonalty with the then yet to built B737), BAC ONE-ELEVEN, DC-9-10, and SE 210 CARAVELLE as jet contenders for NZ domestic routes.

Intense political pressure was applied to try'n force NZNAC into buying BAC ONE-ELEVEN's .... and which the NZ government endorsed on behalf of the UK for a time .... until hierarchy within airline very convincingly pointed out (on the strength of its already having thoroughly analysed 4 prospective short/medium range jet contenders) that the "yet to be built" B737-200 was indeed "THE VERY BEST OPTION" for NZNAC. In particular the airline stressed that the slat-less wing of both the BAC ONE-ELEVEN, and DC-9-10, couldn't promote either aircraft being able to fly slowly, and comfortably, enough when subjected to the worst of Wellington's legendary turbulence .... whereas the B737-200 could "on the strength of known B727 performance".

The airlines choice of the B727-200 "DID NOT" amuse the UK government .... a situation which threatened to erupt a trade war between NZ and one of its primary trading partners at the time, but the airline, having finally convinced the NZ government, acquired B737-200's anyway .... and never looked back.

The "political games/manipulation" didn't end with NZNAC's purchase of the B737-200 though. The airline also required a B737-200 simulator for pilot training. Its options, at the time, were the US CONDUCTRON or British REDIFON products. A classic argument then erupted between the airline and its NZ government principle in regard to what it wanted versus what it would be allowed to acquire .... and which is (amusingly) recorded as having gone like this ....

The NZ TRANSPORT MINISTER summoned a senior NZNAC executive (a NZ government appointee) into his office stating .... "YOU GOT THE AEROPLANE YOU WANTED .... NOW WE'VE GOTTA DO SOMETHING FOR THE BRITISH .... SO IN REGARD TO THE SIMULATOR YOU'LL BUY BRITISH AND LIKE IT" :)

To which the senior airline executive simply responded .... "WE'LL BUY IT MINISTER .... BUT WE WON'T LIKE IT" ;)

NZNAC did end up buying the British REDIFON simulator though .... and was "well satisfied with it" .... to the extent of again selecting the REFIFON product when AIR NZ updated its simulator during the 1980's.

The following are HJG tributes to how the BAC ONE-ELEVEN (possibly the -400) and DC-9 (possibly the -14/-15) might have looked had NZNAC acquired either during the later i960's ....


"FICTIONAL" NZ NATIONAL AIRWAYS CORPORATION BAC ONE-ELEVEN (livery concept) circa 1967

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"FICTIONAL" NZ NATIONAL AIRWAYS CORPORATION DC-9-10 (livery concept) circa 1967

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Since July 2021 HJG has been hosting the entire DAVID MALTBY FLIGHTIM range of simulations .... which included a lot of it's own texture productions for these simulations as well as other updates in order to fix previously long-standing issues with some of the DMFS range.

NZNAC was merged into AIR NEW ZEALAND on April 1st 1977 .... long before the BAe 146 had even flown. Although the BAe 146 did fly NZ domestic air routes, with ANSETT NEW ZEALAND and QANTAS NEW ZEALAND throughout the 1990's and into the 2000'n'noughties, "had it flown during the 1970's and been acquired by NZNAC, then, it probably would have looked like this ....


"FICTIONAL" NZ NATIONAL AIRWAYS CORPORATION BAe 146-200 (livery concept) circa 1974

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Mark C
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Re: Dreams Are Free

Postby Splitpin » Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:20 pm

Mark, great post...I'm a real "what if" fan.
I like all three types you show and the paintwork.
Last week I spotted (on flight radar) a 146 from Australia heading to AKL from ZQN.
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Re: Dreams Are Free

Postby aerofoto » Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:16 am

I'm a real "what if" fan


As related above and which is based on "recorded history" .... the BAC ONE-ELEVEN and DC-9 were each "serious competitors" for the NZNAC order.

One or the other lobby might have prevailed "and actually eventuated with NZNAC" had the political and technical dice not rolled against them and in favour of the B737-200.

Had MDC been able to offer the DC-9-20 at the time (a DC-9-10 with with a slatted wing LE and either JT8D-7 or -D9 power options), then, the DC-9 might have stood a better chance at the NZNAC order, but, still probably have been rejected in favour of the B737-200 .... again due to the latter types ability to better cope/operate within the NZ environment. Recognizing this MDC actually slackened their sales pitch of the DC-9 to NZNAC as a result. Had MDC been able to offer the DC-9-20 at the time .... another commercial factor that might have gone in the favour of it and NZNAC was fact AIR NZ was already valued MDC customer operating the DC-8-52's.

As DC-9 development came to pass only a few DC-9-20's were ever produced by MDC .... as production and marketing of the type quickly advanced toward the larger DC-9-30, and then later ad even larger versions of the type.

The above NZNAC DC-9-10 texture (when released) can be used on its DC-9-20 also .... this models features the later wing LE configuration and FDE customized performance.

The above NZNAC BAe 146-200 texture has also yet to be released .... whilst that for the BAC ONE-ELEVEN 400 "is" already currently available.

Other HJG produced "WHAT IF's" are as follows ....

https://simviation.com/hjg/fantasy/fantasy.htm

Most of (but not all of) these subjects are based on aircraft types that were either ordered but ultimately not delivered and operated, or, those that were seriously analyzed as fleet re-equipment options, so, whilst being "FICTITIOUS" there's still and "element of truth" associated with some of these .... and that's despite the fact I really don't care for anything other than R/W operations. I simply support whatever the other guys like to offer :)

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Re: Dreams Are Free

Postby aerofoto » Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:31 pm

Whilst on the subject of these "WHAT IF's" :( :)

One I've not organized (despite the fact I don't like them .... I know others do) is the CARAVELLE.

Had SE AVIATION lobby prevailed (unlikely though and despite the fact the CARAVELLE was a very good aircraft) I imagine it'd like have been the -6R (reverser equipped) that might have interested NZNAC.


JUMPING ACROSS THE DITCH/TASMAN AND TO AUSTRALIA ....


TAA were apparently "very interested" in the CARAVELLE prior to eventually committing to the B727-100 .... again I imagine it'd have been the -6R that appealed to the airline as well. Had this SE AVIATION lobby succeeded also .... then it'd have meant ANSETT-ANA would have become a CARAVELLE operator too and by default. This's due to manner in which Australian civil aviation regulations (at the time .... early 1960's) tied the operations of both carriers together and very closely .... in regard to aircraft types operated and right down to daily schedules/routes flown in order that neither operator could acquire an absolute monopoly on the Australian domestic market.

And interesting concept !

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Re: Dreams Are Free

Postby emfrat » Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:58 pm

aerofoto wrote:TAA were apparently "very interested" in the CARAVELLE prior to eventually committing to the B727-100 .... again I imagine it'd have been the -6R that appealed to the airline as well. Had this SE AVIATION lobby succeeded also .... then it'd have meant ANSETT-ANA would have become a CARAVELLE operator too and by default. This's due to manner in which Australian civil aviation regulations (at the time .... early 1960's) tied the operations of both carriers together and very closely .... in regard to aircraft types operated and right down to daily schedules/routes flown in order that neither operator could acquire an absolute monopoly on the Australian domestic market.
And interesting concept !


A bit like today's Big Four banks - as soon as one of them dreams up a new fee or charge, the rest copy it "...in order to remain competitive".
For years there was an apparently abandoned Caravelle parked up at Mascot, then it disappeared. Mebbe they quietly buried it under the third runway. :rolleyes:

The 'Two Airline Policy' was a bit of a rort but there were obviously big savings to be made by having a common parts pool, which could only be done by both airlines having aircraft in common.
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'Propliner' is actually short for 'Proper airliner, with big rumbly radials'

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Re: Dreams Are Free

Postby aerofoto » Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:33 am

"IF" .... anyone's interested the NZNAC DC-9-10 is now available from the HJG "FANTASY LIVERIES" downloads page (along with the earlier uploaded NZNAC BAC ONE-ELEVEN 400 too) ....
https://simviation.com/hjg/fantasy/fantasy.htm

Bear in mind please these files are "FS2004 native and FSX portable" only .... they may function in P3D V3 (not beyond this version though), but, I can't guarantee this as I've yet to have the opportunity to see/analyse this "for myself".

The NZNAC BAe 146-200 couldn't be readied in time for HJG's December/Christmas release of just a few days ago though ....
https://tonymadgehjg.proboards.com/thre ... ember-2022

This particular livery will be included within the first HJG website update for 2023.

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