JFK controllers

[Splitpin]

I've been listening to JFK on ATC Live today....tower, departure,etc.
And what a bunch of disinterested rude bunch they appear to be ..... a real, let's get it over and done with attitude.
I know they are busy, but so are the pilots ... the accents are harsh and slurred...heard one BA captain ask 3 times for a reply in plain English.
One guy was told to reduce speed to 160 knots for the last 3 miles...he explained he couldn't (747) so he was sent around for another approach...... I thought these people were there to help, not punish the pilots.
I'm sure there is a lot in the background I'm not aware of, but the attitude could really do with some adjustment.

[cowpatz]

Very American I'm afraid. What they don't seem to realise is that there are many operators for whom English is a second language. Many may be at the end of a very long flight. If these controllers just stuck to using established standard phraseology then things would be better for everyone and the number of repeats vastly reduced. Having said that a 747 could easily maintain 160 kts from 3 miles so I'm not sure what the problem was there. Often BA don't help themselves.

[Splitpin]

Thanks for the reply CP.
From what I could gather, the controller needed him to be at 160kts at the start of the 3 mile section .... he told her, he was ..as she knew...flying a 747, and couldn't get down to 160 in the time she had given him...and he was flying ..I think he said ...a company profile for that runway. They both got a bit heated.
Come to think of it, it must have been an archived recording, I'm sure BA don't use the 74 anymore.
I'll see if I can find the link again.

[cowpatz]

Was it this one?

JFK controller versus BA pilot

[Splitpin]

Yes thats it CP ....and I got most of the info wrong sorry. I was flicking between VAS and the actual live feed ..my bad.
But interesting...love the way he calls her "Maam" most likely ex-RAF.

[Johnwag]

??? Speedbird 15K says he can do 160 or greater until 5 DME - so he can do 180 kts because that is greater than 160 - and therefore comply with the controllers request. ……

[aerofoto]

Try these R/W ATC recordings Marty .... mostly in line with yours and "COWPATZ" commentary

Air Traffic Control GND in JFK: Understanding the mess
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztkGTke-P8Y

Iberia - JFK air traffic controller conversation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vniFiaXGbw

Live ATC - Rude Air Traffic Controller
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYROSTV_KVg

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[cowpatz]

??? Speedbird 15K says he can do 160 or greater until 5 DME - so he can do 180 kts because that is greater than 160 - and therefore comply with the controllers request. ……

Yes an unusual response. At first her request sounds reasonable until you look at the approach chart for that runway 22L The DME is not co-located with the threshold of the runway. In fact it is 1.4 miles further down the runway.
This would mean that the aircraft would only be 3.6 miles from the runway threshold before reducing speed below 180 kts. This would roughly equate to an altitude of around 1150 ft.
Most airlines now require that the aircraft be at final approach speed and in a stable landing configuration by 1000ft (Stable approach gate). So if the target speed was say 150 kts then a speed reduction of 30 kts would be required in 150 ft. It's all doable but why push it? Any exceedance would be trigger a FOQA (Flight Operations Quality Assurance) report with a possible please explain.
It is possible that the controller does not realise that the DME is not located and thinks that there is 5 miles to the runway (which would be fine).
We get this same thing frequently at KLAX.

[Splitpin]

Here you go CP , I can't imagine any long-winded conversations between ATC and these guys ...they appear to be busy enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_21Ojt_Y01E

What a ride.

[cowpatz]

Then you have British ATC. Very calm and collected.

Heathrow director

[Charl]

Yes well mostly you can HEAR WTH they are actually saying!
I'm assuming everyone already knows what the other guy is MEANT to be saying because I absolutely cannot, generally it's worse than announcements at the oldest railway station in the world. Like talking into a beercan.

[emfrat]

"The train now arriving at platform three comes to us as a complete surprise"

[Johnwag]

To me, UK controller much better to listen to with good use if standard phraseologies

[Charl]

"The train now arriving at platform three comes to us as a complete surprise"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK9WYq303qk